2008 January 15
KAYSVILLE CITY PUBLIC HEARING
JANUARY 15, 2008
Minutes of a Public Hearing held January 15, 2008 at 6:00 p.m. in the Council Room of the Kaysville City Municipal Center to receive public comment on the proposed trail in the Monte Bella Subdivision.
Members present: Mayor Neka Roundy, Council Members Gil Miller, Lynn Galbraith, Mark Johnson, Steve Hiatt and Ron Stephens.
Others present: City Manager John Thacker, Recorder Linda Ross, Engineer Andy Thompson, Planner Scott Messel, Bob Murri, Tracy McCoy, Scott Ogilvie, George Chipman, Randy Klein, Vicki Wright, Conner Wright, David Wright, Jennifer Beckstrand, Kerry Welch, Wayne Korth, Jeff Watts, Mark Elggren, Leonard Nealson, Curt Harris, Lance Thaxton, Noel Rigby, Paul Loss, Chris McRoberts, Kristy McRoberts, John McRoberts, Ann Brian, Lois Mulholland, David Mulholland, and Richard Lindsley.
Mayor Roundy opened the hearing.
Andy Thompson explained that the Farmington Trails Committee requested that a trail be provided in the Monte Bella Subdivision. The Farmington Trails Committee Master Plan shows a trail running along the Haight Creek channel. A portion of the Haight Creek channel lies in Kaysville, therefore, the Trails Committee requested that the developer of this subdivision grant them the right to put a trail on the back property line. The Planning Commission expressed some concerns about the trail. The City Council heard those concerns and determined that they would allow the Trails Committee, the developer, and citizens with concerns to discuss the issues. The developer would like to record his plat so that he can begin this subdivision, therefore, he needs to know if there needs to be a trail easement.
George Chipman, a member of the Farmington Trails Committee, stated that portions of this trail are complete. The trail begins on the west, at the Great Salt Lake Shoreline Trail, extends to I-15, then crosses Shepard Lane. After it crosses Shepard Lane, it comes up the frontage road and into the Silverwood Subdivision. From that point, there is a proposed route. They would like the trail to connect to the Monte Bella Subdivision. They are trying to provide a continuous trail from the Great Salt Lake to the Cherry Hill area. He stated that most people see the value in having trails and open space but are concerned about safety of their children. He can understand that. Studies that he has read state that these fears often do not bear out. He finds that the more neighbors and community that monitor an area, the safer it becomes. He believes that a nature trail provides neighbors with ready access so they can get down into the area where troublemakers might gather. He understands that in the past there have been problems because of seclusion. He believes this trail can be a solution to the problems and can be a natural area of lasting value to the community rather than have it locked up in private land. The actual placement of the trail could improve the privacy of homeowners by putting it on the far side and screening it with vegetation where possible. The developer has offered 20 conditions to improve the safety and privacy of this trail. He recommends that a note be put on the plat that a public easement is allowed for a future nature trail and then reference the 20 conditions.
Tracy McCoy stated that he lives in Farmington and is an avid hiker. A trail can increase the friendliness of a neighborhood by giving opportunities for more neighbors to meet in a relaxed setting. Many Farmington residents use the Lagoon trail. This trail is often referred to as the jewel of the Farmington trails because of its unique setting and proximity to a stream flow. He, his family, and neighbors seek to travel on this trail. This trail is a regularly sought after resource. This trail gives a service opportunity to scouts and other volunteers who help maintain it. The primary maintenance of the trail is to cut back plant growth next to the trail borders. He envisions the Haight Creek trail to have public access with similar use and allure and become another jewel trail. It seems wise to him to use this property as a trail.
Randy Klein stated that Farmington City’s Mayor, Scott Harbertson, sent a letter to Mayor Roundy a few months ago which stated in part, “We feel a trail at this location would be a positive amenity for both Kaysville and Farmington residents in that it would connect to our Haight Creek trail.” He explained that Farmington has had ten years of experience developing city trails through subdivisions and connecting onto larger trail systems. They have had a positive impact on the community and there have been no trail related crimes. He stated that the Federal Highway Administration has said that trails are actually one of the safest places to be and the incidents of crimes on trails is minor compared to other places. Numerous studies have shown that the perceptions of increased crime along trails are unfounded. A few weeks ago, he was jogging past this hollow and noticed teenagers shooting in the area. He believes that if a trail had been there, people using the trail would discourage that. He called the police and officers came and investigated the situation.
Vicki Wright stated that she lives on Haight Creek Drive and is also a member of the Kaysville Planning Commission. She has concerns with the way the trail was proposed initially to the Planning Commission. The private easement was not disclosed on the preliminary plat and no mention of the trail came until the developer requested final plat approval for Monte Bella Subdivision. No mention was made during the staff presentation either. The developer mentioned it only at the end of his comments as a “by the way” type of statement. This trail appears to be a backroom agreement by a few and she believes that the developer stated as much when he said that he was told he would not receive final plat approval unless the trail was included. She explained that the General Plan states that natural resources of Kaysville should be protected, conserved and improved. The Plan lists seven ways in which that should be accomplished. It says: Protect and improve stream channels and flood hazard areas through stream channel and flood damage prevention regulations. She explained that Haight Creek is a continually flowing stream and also a flood hazard area. A natural trail will undergo constant damage because the whole area floods several times a year and any natural trail would be washed away. She stated that the entire trail site is a wetland area and cannot be tampered with in order to solve this problem without approval of the Army Corps of Engineers. A man-made and man traveled trail could be detrimental to the delicate nature of the area. She explained that the hollow is home to many different species of wildlife. A trail would bring a large number of people and trash to the area, which is a danger to wildlife. She believes that the developer probably did an environmental impact study on this development but she is sure he did it without the trail being included. She believes this should be re-done before a trail is allowed. The Planning Commission works with developers when flag lots are proposed in order to make sure existing neighbors have the right to enjoy the quiet privacy of their own property. She lives next door to a natural gas pipeline which crosses her property at the back north corner and is indicated on the final plat of the Monte Bella Subdivision as it continues on through the hollow and beyond. Because of this pipeline, she was confident that the privacy for which they purchased the lot would be maintained forever because by law no permanent structure or permanent landscaping in the form of trees can be built or planted on top of the pipeline. It was mentioned to her by the Trails Committee they could work to provide screening in the way of trees that would lessen the intrusion on her family. Because of the pipeline, this is impossible. Her family will be completely open to the trail and its constant intrusion. In a flag lot situation, the newcomer becomes a neighbor and one family who lives in the backyard of the existing neighbor. They eventually become friends. This can never happen in this situation. Her backyard will be in full, unobstructed view of a constant flow of strangers. Elggren’s property will be screened by a fence. She wonders why this is just being provided for their property. It needs to be available to all that are affected. Unsavory activities occur in that hollow now, such as drug use, kids with paint ball and bb guns, and at least one homeless camper. The secluded nature of the trail will not drive these things away. Seclusion makes the bold, bolder. She stated that the Davis County Park was a secluded area and that area experienced constant problems. Another concern she has is that nothing has been discussed regarding ownership of the trail. She wonders who will maintain the trail. Her family did not purchase their home believing that a trail would be there. A public trail behind existing homes is not in accordance with the goals set forth in the General Plan. She believes that this will be an unfair burden on her neighborhood.
Council Member Miller asked Ms. Wright who made the statement to the developer that his final plat would not be approved without a trail.
Vicki Wright stated that the developer told her that Mayor Roundy did. She asked the developer if he had been strong armed and he said that was too strong of a word but that he had been told that he would not get final plat approval unless he included the trail. That is on record in the Planning Commission minutes.
Mayor Roundy denied that she told the developer that.
David Wright stated that he is kind of an environmentalist at heart and that is one reason that they bought the property they live on. They knew there was a piece of nature behind them that they could enjoy. He was raised in Kaysville and spent his youth playing in the hollows of the City which was a wonderful opportunity. At that time, the hollows did not have houses next to them. They were secluded and out of the way. He believes that this trail is a great idea but it has an impact on people living on Haight Creek Drive. He worries about safety. They have a swing set next to where the public easement will be. He has a seven year old daughter who is out there a lot by herself. He is concerned for her safety. He believes that where public gathers, especially along secluded trails, problems occur. They have frequented the Lagoon trail and he believes that trail does not impact houses similar to what this trail would.
Lois Mulholland stated that she lives in Farmington and is a member of the Farmington Trails Committee. She is a nature lover. The Trails Committee has a goal to make trails available to people who like to hike. There are many trails in Farmington. She expects that this trail would be developed to provide the best means of a trail to protect the environment. One thing that is sad to her is to see development and displacement of nature. She believes that trails protect land for wildlife. She has never seen a trail with constant traffic. All of the trails in Farmington are assigned to members of the Trails Committee or interested citizens who are responsible to walk the trails a few times a year and pick up trash. She believes trails protect wildlife.
David Mulholland stated that he lives in Farmington. He believes that it is a wonderful opportunity to have a trail where people can walk where there aren’t any exhaust fumes. It is wonderful to walk along a trail with silence and clean air. He encouraged the Council to allow a trail at this location. He believes this is a good place to start.
John McRoberts stated that he lives on Haight Creek Drive. He is in favor of having a trail through his backyard. He believes that trails have positive benefits and that his neighborhood would be safer with a trail there. There are people in his yard all the time. They view it as public land. He believes that people walking on this trail will not be strangers, but will be neighbors. He thinks this is a positive thing. People who live next to him wanted to attend the meeting this evening but were unable to. They too are in favor of the trail. He does volunteer work with the Farmington Trails Committee. He thinks what they do is special and would be an asset to the City. He grew up in Ohio where they went through a similar situation. The same arguments were presented. The trails turned out to be a very positive and popular thing. He would like the Council to take into consideration that two members of the Planning Commission live in this area and are directly affected by this trail. He believes that they should recuse themselves from this discussion.
Council Member Miller explained that the trail will come out of the hollow and go along the sidewalk in front of Mr. McRobert’s house.
Jeff Watts stated that he lives on Winston Drive. He supports the trail. He is concerned about the problem of obesity. More than half of Utah adults are overweight and an estimated 22.5% of elementary school students are overweight or are at a risk of becoming overweight. The Utah Department of Health has made it a goal to decrease the number of overweight kids in Utah by10% by the year 2010. He believes that communities can help by increasing availability and access to affordable and free recreational activities. Providing access to this trail would provide free recreation opportunities for physical activity. He tries to take his children hiking. They enjoy it. He supports more trails.
Mark Elggren stated that it is his understanding that the developer of this subdivision purchased the property and was asked to make sure the hollow was maintained in a pristine way and not developed even by property owners as they purchase lots. That will be difficult to do if a trail is put in. He has lived in this area for years and watched the flood plain. The area is a total marsh, even in the driest years, for about a 200 yard stretch. Therefore, it will not be easy to create any type of a trail for a good length of that area. He wanted to know why the trail, as it comes through the Hess Farms development, would not continue along the sidewalk to Main Street. He believes that going into the hollow would not accomplish anything. He wanted to know where the trail would come out when it reaches the end, which is where his property and Clyde Rigby’s property is located. He believes that needs to be determined before any easement is given because that will have an impact on the upper part of the development of this subdivision or on someone else’s property.
Bob Murri stated that he is a resident of Farmington and a big promoter of trails. He used to live in east Kaysville. When he and his family wanted to go on a walk, they had to walk on the sidewalks. He is on the Farmington Trails Committee. He believes that trails increase the quality of life for residents. Advantages of trails are that they provide: a safe place away from traffic where people can get away from cars, an area for hobbies like plant study and photography, a shortcut for children going to school, a nature walk for relaxation, and a tree lined jogging path. He believes this trail would be a crown jewel. This could also provide field trips for elementary school children. He wanted to know if there is a trails committee in Kaysville.
Mayor Roundy stated that there is not, but a Council Member is looking into these types of things.
Leonard Nealson stated that most of the people that have spoken this evening are not from this area. He has lived along Haight Creek for 30 years. When he purchased his lot he thought this was a beautiful, secluded hollow with trees and a year round stream. That is why he decided he wanted to live there. Other people in the area purchased their lots with the same purpose. Over time, the Tanner’s, to the south of him, stopped growing hay and removed cows from their property. The property was then left unattended and became open for easy public access. High school aged kids built a shed in the hollow and have nighttime parties. The kids play ball games in his backyard. They can do it because they have public access, which is open to everybody. There are also motorcycles and ATV’s in the hollow. This is what happens when it is left open to the public. The north end of the hollow is a little more secure but he still watches kids going over fences. His neighbors have had their shed broken into and things stolen from it. He believes that unless there is an 8' fence on both sides, the City will be creating a public park. People will not stay on the trail. In later summer, the underbrush and grass get very dry. His fear is that some kids will start a fire that could burn his house down. It would be difficult to get fire equipment down there. There are already hiking trails along the foothills and out west in the unpopulated areas. People going out for exercise can continue to walk down the sidewalks in front of his house. He believes that this is an ill-conceived plan.
Curt Harris stated that he lives on Haight Creek Drive. He is opposed to the trail as well. He exercises every day by walking on the sidewalk. His daughter used to live in Colorado. There they have trails that go everywhere, but none of the trails are connected to backyards. He suggested that an alternative route be used that doesn’t go through backyards. He hopes that the Council will listen to the developer’s suggestions and to the people who live along this trail.
Wayne Korth stated that he lives on the corner of Haight Creek Drive and 1475 South. He was the first person to buy a lot in Hess Farms and he selected a lot on the hollow because he liked the privacy behind him. He knows that there will be homes built behind him and he welcomes those people but he does not like the idea of a walkway in his backyard. He supports walking but hopes that the Council will represent the people of Kaysville and not Farmington when they vote on this issue. He holds many family parties and social events in his backyard and would like to keep them private. He is a walker himself and enjoys trails. In the summer, this area is a tinderbox. It would be horrible if there was a fire in the hollow. He is very much opposed to this trail.
Lance Thaxton stated that he lives on Haight Creek Drive. He is opposed to the trail for a number of reasons. He believes that the increased access to the public will increase safety concerns. They purchased their home last year. The trail is proposed to end at 1475 South and then continue down the sidewalk. That will mean a key access point at that location for people wanting to get down into the hollow and will increase the traffic along the Farmington road. Anyone walking along the trail would be able to see his four young children playing in his backyard. Windridge Elementary just built a walking path around their school to allow a place for people to walk.
Noel Rigby stated that he has lived here all his life. He has never heard of anything so ridiculous as running trails through backyards. They will have no privacy. People will get into his backyard and turn his animals out. He is dead set against it.
Paul Loss stated that he lives on the west side of Farmington. This trail will someday meet Salt Lake. He has lived in several communities over that last 20 years and many of the communities were very large with many miles of trails. He was immediately attracted to Farmington because of the open space and trails. He believes that makes for a better community. He has lived here for four years and seen amazing growth. To create this trail is a one time opportunity and the time to act is now. He explained that change is difficult but people are better afterwards. This trail should be considered a linear park. When the entire area has built out, this trail will be a legacy.
Chris McRoberts stated that he lives on Haight Creek Drive. This trail will run through his backyard. He previously lived in an area where there was a trail behind his apartment. He bought a mountain bike and put it in his backyard. It was stolen the first night. The police told him that thefts occurred frequently along the trail. He keeps children’s toys and a lawnmower in his backyard. He doesn’t want them to disappear and he doesn’t want people walking through his yard to get out to the street. There are teenagers who roam that area all the time. They build forts in the hollow and use drugs. If people have easier access, there will be more of that kind of activity. He worries that teenagers will frequent the area at night. They have a trampoline in their backyard. People will be 15' away from the trampoline and there are many days when there are 8 to10 of his daughter’s friends playing down there. He would rather not take any risk. He has heard from people this evening who support the trail in his backyard. He and his family love where they live. They just added onto their house instead of moving. If they had known that there would be a path in the hollow or that the Tanner’s would develop their land, they may have moved rather than add onto their existing home. He urged the Council to help keep his yard and children safe.
Kristy McRoberts stated that her parents live in Colorado and there are beautiful walking trails there but the trails don’t have access to anyone’s yard. Haight Creek Drive is a busy road so it is nice to have their backyard for children to play in.
Ann Brian stated that she lives on Haight Creek Drive. She favors trails but opposes this one. She does not want this in her backyard. There are fox living in the hollow now. If people are there, animals will retreat. There is a large amount of water that rages through that area. She does not understand how a trail can be put where a river flows. The area is marshy and there are mosquitos there. This is not an ideal place for a trail. She also lives in fear of a fire because the grass is 3' high. Haight Creek Drive is a very wide road and she would be more than happy to widen sidewalks in this area so people can walk there. She has smelt marijuana a lot in the hollow, her basketball standard has been shot out, and she has witnessed people having sex in the hollow. She has been awakened in the early morning hours by her dog barking and it turned out to be teenagers in the hollow. This area is too secluded for a trail.
Kerry Welch stated that he lives in unincorporated Davis County and is sympathetic to concerns expressed by landowners. He lives next to the Davis Creek trail, which is a public trail that runs into Forest Service land and Farmington City. He has lived there for six years. He was very concerned about safety, privacy and valuation of property. Much to his surprise, his experience has been opposite to what he feared. Problems have been less of a concern. By creating a linear park there is less random wondering than there used to be by an undesirable element. He is a huge proponent of trails. He urged the Council to approve a similar route if they do not approve of this proposed route and to do it now because the opportunity is fleeting.
The hearing adjourned at 7:20 p.m.
KAYSVILLE CITY COUNCIL
JANUARY 15, 2008
Minutes of a regular meeting of the Kaysville City Council held January 15, 2008 at 7:20 p.m. in the City Council Chambers of the Kaysville City Municipal Center.
Members present: Mayor Neka Roundy, Council Members Gil Miller, Lynn Galbraith, Mark Johnson, Steve Hiatt and Ron Stephens.
Others present: City Manager John Thacker, Recorder Linda Ross, Engineer Andy Thompson, Planner Scott Messel, City Attorney Felshaw King, Parks Superintendent Vance Garfield, Ruth Malan-Ogden Standard, Lynn Arave-Deseret News, Bob Murri, Tracy McCoy, Mike Navidomskis, Scott Ogilvie, Randy Klein, Vicki Wright, Conner Wright, David Wright, Kerry Welch, Wayne Korth, Jeff Watts, Mark Elggren, Leonard Nealson, Jennifer Beckstrand, Curt Harris, Lance Thaxton, Chris McRoberts, Kristy McRoberts, Ann Brian, Richard Lindsley, Lois Mulholland, David Mulholland, LeAnn Harris, Loren Clark, Ashton Wright, Aaron Branham, Mike Fuhriman, Kyler Fuhriman, Michael Williams, Mitch Poulson, Jackson Peacock, George Eames, Wade Baskin, Randy Parker, Katherine Dahlstet, Daniel Sharp, Byton Godfrey, Kyle Gee, Kimberly Shaprio, Jonathon Shapiro, Gordon Kennington, Cooper Brown, Ryan Lucas, Jack McQuiston, Jack Nelson and Andrew Glasmacker.
PROPOSED TRAIL IN MONTE BELLA SUBDIVISION
Mayor Roundy stated that a public hearing was held earlier this evening to receive public comment regarding a proposed trail in this subdivision, which is located at 1250 South Main Street. She explained that the City Council does not need to take any action on this matter. The City asked the developer not to record the plat until February 5, 2008. The developer was not present for the public hearing this evening and the minutes will not be approved until February 5, therefore, she wonders if the Council should allow the developer until February 6, 2008 to record the plat.
Council Member Miller stated that in November he made a motion granting final plat approval for this subdivision subject to the trail issue being resolved before the plat is recorded and if the trail issue has not been resolved by February 5, 2008 the plat will be recorded without an easement for the trail. His motion approved the plat without trails and was passed 5-0 by the Council. People may label the Council “trail killers” but that is far from the truth. The intent of his motion was that if the neighborhood and developer could get together and come to a solution, the Council might revisit the trail idea. He has been confused since the beginning of the Public Hearing about what direction they should give the developer and the Farmington Trails Committee because they have already given direction in terms of a final plat. He was waiting for them to come to the City with
a solution and if a solution was not forthcoming, then as the motion said, the plat could be recorded on February 5. If delaying until February 6 is going to help them figure out a solution, he has no problem with that.
Andy Thompson stated that the developer has not made any effort toward recording the plat and it is likely he will not be ready to record it by February 5.
Council Member Hiatt wanted to know if a draft of the minutes could be given to the developer.
Mayor Roundy stated that she has always understood that minutes should be in an approved form before they are given to the public.
Council Member Miller stated that the developer could probably get a copy of the recording of the meeting.
Felshaw King stated that the minutes are a record of the proceedings. The action taken at a meeting is not contingent upon subsequent approval of the minutes. When a motion is made and voted upon, then that becomes the action of the Council. He believes that the recording of a meeting could be given to someone immediately and they would not have to wait until the minutes have been approved.
Council Member Miller stated that he did not want to go forward with the Public Hearing without the developer being present, but the developer should have access to what was said this evening.
Council Member Stephens stated that he believes the City went the extra mile by providing a forum for individuals to speak. He thought it was clear as to the direction that was given at the hearing and it is the developer’s responsibility to make a decision as to what resources would be most helpful to them. He believes that the developer would probably want to listen to a recording of the meeting and try to get a feel for the public sentiment.
Andy Thompson stated that the developer emailed a letter to him this morning which listed some conditions he would recommend with regards to a trail.
Neka Roundy then read the letter from the developer which stated that he agrees to allow the placement of a nature trail in the hollow of the Monte Bella Subdivision upon certain conditions and upon the approval of the trail by the Kaysville City Council. The developer attached a list of 20 conditions. She believes that the Council has gone the extra mile and held a public hearing.
Andy Thompson stated that the developer is fairly neutral on the issue and is willing to allow the trail. The Farmington Trails Committee is requesting this trail and the developer has consented.
Council Member Miller stated that he is worried that the public believes that somehow the Council still has a decision to make on this matter. The Council has already made a decision with a 5-0 vote not to put the trail on the plat. If they come to another resolution and want to bring that to the Council, the Council will listen.
Mayor Roundy stated that the developer should request to be placed on a Council agenda if he would like to request a change.
Andy Thompson stated that he will talk to the developer and explain the situation. He will ask what information he desires and inform him that the ball is in his court and the Council is looking to hear from him if he wants something other than a subdivision with no trail.
Vicki Wright stated that she has a copy of the developers letter as well. The Council is saying that the ball is in the developers court, however, she believes that he has just put the ball in the Council’s court.
Mayor Roundy explained that the motion has already been made.
Council Member Miller stated that there may be confusion on the developer’s part, but there is no confusion on the Council’s part. The Council has made their decision. If the developer comes back with a resolution between him, the neighbors, and the Trails Committee that is different than what the Council has done, then he would like to hear it.
Vicki Wright stated that in that case, the public wouldn’t need any response from the Council regarding their concerns.
Mayor Roundy stated that as it stands now, that is correct.
Vicki Wright stated that there was no point in having a public hearing this evening.
Council Member Miller stated that that is his personal feeling, especially since the developer was not present to take input, but he can hear it on a recording of the meeting.
Council Member Hiatt stated that he would like some clarification but it seems to him that the public hearing was either too early or too late. He doesn’t want to ask questions and waste anyone’s time if it doesn’t make any difference.
Council Member Galbraith stated that he thought the purpose of tabling this matter last November was to have citizens give input and work out differences with the developer and then present that to the Council.
Wayne Korth stated that there seems to be an assumption that people who live on Haight Creek Drive were involved in this issue. From his point of view, they were not. Mr. Chipman stated that he would talk to the neighbors. He may have talked to some but he didn’t learn about this trail until just this last Saturday. Everyone he talked to knew nothing about it. The notification of the Public Hearing was a paper posted on the property, which has been buried in a snow bank. The neighbors have not discussed this with the developer or Mr. Chipman.
Action Item: Andy Thompson will talk to the developer of the Monte Bella Subdivision and explain what happened in the Public Hearing and City Council meeting this evening and if he would like a trail in this subdivision he must request to be on the City Council agenda.
APPEAL OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION DECISION TO DENY AMENDMENT OF THE ORIGINAL CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR THE ELMS ON FLINT CLUSTER SUBDIVISION AND A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR TWO TWIN HOMES IN THE ELMS ON FLINT CLUSTER SUBDIVISION
This item was postponed.
CENTRAL MAIN STREET IMPROVEMENT PROJECT CONSISTING OF IMPROVEMENTS ON MAIN STREET BETWEEN 200 NORTH AND 100 SOUTH
Scott Messel explained that on November 6, 2007 the Council approved the concept plan for improvements on Main Street and directed City staff to move forward with design and cost estimates. The proposed plan is for planter boxes, lighting and trees. The planter boxes are estimated to cost $233,044.85. He explained that Spanish Fork City has had great success with the planters in their sidewalks and believe the planters help create an atmosphere that plays to the strengths of their downtown businesses.
Council Member Johnson wanted to know if money had been budgeted for this project.
Scott Messel stated that it has not.
Council Member Miller wanted to know if money has been budgeted for new outdoor lighting.
Scott Messel stated there is money in the budget for new lights and parts of those lights have arrived. What has not been budgeted for is removal of concrete, placement of conduit, planter boxes and replacement of trees.
Council Member Hiatt stated that he is in favor of beautification of the City. He wanted to know where the money would come from to do this project.
John Thacker explained that the Council could do this project in a future budget or not do something in the current budget and move that money to this project. What would most likely be cut if the Council decides to fund this project is street work.
Council Member Galbraith wanted to know if this project would require a tax increase.
Council Member Johnson stated that this project could be put into the FY 09 budget.
Council Member Miller stated that there are not a lot of options. The Council could raise taxes or cut other projects.
Council Member Stephens stated that he would love to see greater support for the downtown business area. He believes that parking is as critical in terms of the needs. He would like to see the Council consider that issue as well. Some people he talked to say it probably won’t make a great deal of difference what is in front of the businesses if there is no place to park.
John Thacker stated that what has already been approved are parking improvements and lighting. Right now, the City is making modifications to Center Street, curb has been installed on 100 West and 100 North, and parking on Center Street and pedestrian safety is being approved. The new lighting will make it well lit for pedestrians.
Scott Messel stated that the City could eliminate the planter boxes but install the lighting, replace sidewalks, install conduit, install tree grates and plant new trees.
John Thacker explained that the sidewalks would not need to be taken out in order to put the conduit in for the lighting. Boring could be done. There could already be conduit in place, which has not been explored yet. If concrete was going to be removed for the planter boxes, then all the pipeline work could be done at the same time (electrical, water, etc.). If the planter boxes are not going to be done, other options will be looked at, such as boring or seeing if the conduit that is currently in place can be used.
Council Member Miller stated that if the planter boxes are taken out of the project it would bring the total cost to about $80,000. The planter boxes are not what the business owners want. Spanish Fork City has a wider sidewalk than Kaysville. He questions the need for planter boxes. He would like to see the sidewalk be wonderfully walkable. He is anxious about going forward with something this grand right now, especially in regards to the planter boxes, because of cost and business owners not being in favor of it.
Katherine Dahlstet, a business owner on Main Street, stated that people have to have access to the stores. The parking issue is paramount. She believes that planter boxes would provide a great deal of obstacles for people getting easily in and out of their cars. She believes planter boxes would be detrimental. Also, she believes the benches proposed would provide more obstacles. She does not believe anyone would use the benches. She suggested that some trees be put in but not too many. She thought trees and lampposts were what the City was looking at doing. Her businesses would be blocked by trees and she is not be in favor of that. The proposal is different on all three blocks on how the trees would be distributed. A few trees might be appropriate, but she recommends that they be placed in front of businesses who want them and would not be impacted by them.
Mike Navidomskis, a business owner on Main Street, stated that he is against the trees because they block his business. He can’t wait for the trees that are currently there to die. It makes no sense to him to put in trees that will block the signs of the businesses. He believes that all that is needed is lighting. Parking would also help. A planter box would take up the entire sidewalk.
Randy Parker, a business owner on Main Street, stated that he talks to all his customers when they come in and no one thinks planter boxes are a good idea. A few trees spaced farther than they are now would be okay and lighting would be good.
Scott Messel stated that Bill Call, owner of the Kaysville Theater, does not like the planter boxes but he would be in favor of lighting and putting new trees back in. He is also fine with benches and bike racks.
Council Member Hiatt stated that he understands how much a business pays for signage. He wanted to know what opportunity the businesses have had to give input.
Scott Messel explained that he walked up and down Main Street and gave a copy of the staff report to businesses that were open. He also sent a letter to all business and property owners inviting them to give input. Bill Call, Clytie Adams, and the owner of Pepperbelly’s came to the meeting when this was discussed previously.
Council Member Johnson suggested that everything to do with the planter boxes be taken out of the project and then when the Council reviews the FY 09 budget they could see if there is money for new sidewalks.
Council Member Galbraith suggested that if the concrete is okay there is no need to remove all of it.
Council Member Miller wanted to know if the new lights could be installed now and sidewalks installed later when they are budgeted for.
John Thacker stated that it would be more cost effective to do all the work at one time.
Council Member Miller stated that the Council is using tax dollars to make downtown look more accommodating. He can appreciate the business owners view about the trees, however, there are a lot of people in Kaysville that love trees and the City is using their tax dollars for this project. He hopes that a smaller tree could be used along Main Street that would live better in restricted confines.
Council Member Stephens stated that he believes being patient and doing a job all at once that would be more cost effective would be best.
Council Member Hiatt suggested that this matter be tabled for now and that more feedback be received from the business owners so that the Council can determine what they would prefer.
Council Member Miller suggested that the City go forward with the lights, put in smaller trees, and have the business owners tell the City where they want the trees placed.
John Thacker suggested that the City remove the trees that are declining, install new lights, replace the soil where the trees are now and plant smaller trees in the wells where people want them and are willing to water them until they mature. The wells located where businesses do not want trees can be filled in. The sidewalks should be smooth concrete because stamped concrete will hold water and freeze making it hard to shovel snow and uncomfortable for people to walk on. The number one concern is parking and pedestrian access. The light element will be the uniform feature along the block.
The Council Members then discussed whether they would like stamped concrete or smooth concrete.
John Thacker explained that smooth concrete would be better for pedestrians along Main Street. Stamped concrete is hard to clean and damaged easily by freezing and thawing.
Vance Garfield explained that it takes two years to establish trees. Smaller tree would work better along Main Street. Blocking signs and awnings has been the biggest concern of the business owners. He recommended that the business owners be shown a picture of their buildings with the proposed trees at maturity so they can see how it will affect their signs.
Mayor Roundy wanted to know if the new lampposts could be decorated with Christmas lights.
Vance Garfield stated that he believes some creative things could be done in that regard.
Scott Messel stated that he believes the two most important elements are trees and lights. He is willing to talk to the business owners but is not sure if the business owners would want to water them.
Council Member Miller stated that at least one owner told him they will not water a tree because they hope it will die. He is concerned about that. He would like to make certain before the City decides whether to irrigate or not, that this idea is well thought out.
Council Member Stephens explained that he is also concerned about business owners being responsible to water the trees. If the City decides that trees are an important component of this beautification plan, then the City should maintain the trees.
Council Member Galbraith stated that some business owners are opposed to trees and some are not. Some are opposed to lights and some are not. The trees add an element that concrete and lights do not. He likes the idea of showing business owners what their building will look like when the trees have matured.
Council Member Miller stated that the City needs to understand the budget difference between irrigation and non-irrigation and between boring and replacing sidewalks.
Action Item: Scott Messel will put together a cost difference showing irrigation of trees versus non- irrigation of trees and boring under the sidewalks versus replacement of sidewalks. He will also contact business owners along Main Street and show them what the trees will look like in front of their buildings when they mature and determine who would like trees and who would not. He will come back to the Council in about a month with this information.
ORDINANCE ENACTING TITLE 8, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, INCLUDING CHAPTER 1, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, AND RECODIFYING CHAPTER 3, MAJOR STREET PLAN, CHAPTER 5, FLOOD DAMAGE PREVENTION, AND CHAPTER 6, IMPACT FEES, OF THE REVISED ORDINANCES OF KAYSVILLE CITY
John Thacker explained that some time ago, the part of the Public Works Department that had charge of physical planning and regulation of land uses, subdivisions, buildings and businesses was designated as the Community Development Department. That organization is working well so it should be codified in the revised ordinances of Kaysville City. This would create two new sections in Title 8.
Council Member Hiatt made a motion to adopt Ordinance No. 08-1-1, Enacting Title 8, Community Development, Including Chapter 1, Community Development Department, and Recodifying Chapter 3, Major Street Plan, Chapter 5, Flood Damage Prevention, and Chapter 6, Impact Fees, of the Revised Ordinances of Kaysville City, second by Council Member Johnson.
The vote on the motion was as follows:
Council Member Miller, yea
Council Member Galbraith, yea
Council Member Johnson, yea
Council Member Hiatt, yea
Council Member Stephens, yea
The motion passed unanimously.
COUNCIL MEMBER REPORTS
John Thacker stated that included in the Council packets was a list of service providers and representatives. Most of these service providers deal with planning, power and water.
Mayor Roundy asked to be listed as the Utah League of Cities and Towns representative.
Mayor Roundy explained that since the Legislature removed the sales tax from food it leaves UTA short of funds. The County Commissioners are considering reallocation of fees. She requested that all of the Council Member’s give her their opinion on this matter.
Council Member Hiatt read an email he received from a person who is doing business in Kaysville as well as moving to Kaysville. This person saw the Council meeting that was televised recently on Channel 17 and was impressed with the direction of televising the meetings and having access online. He believes that television and internet are positive ways of keeping people up-to-date. He recommended that Kaysville update residents and keep them informed. Council Member Hiatt then explained that he has some ideas regarding better communication. He recommends that the Council have a work session regarding communication. He suggested that the public hearing notices that are posted on property have a number listed on them. With snow in the winter, accessibility to read what is posted on those signs is questionable. If a number is shown on the notice, people could access the City website, pull up that public notice number, and read it.
Mayor Roundy suggested that Council Member Hiatt compose a list of suggested communication ideas and email it to her and when the Council discusses calendar items this evening they set a date for a work session to discuss communications.
Action Item: Council Member Hiatt will compose a list of communication suggestions and email it to the Mayor.
CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Cindy Nash stated that she lives on Creekside Way. In December, her neighborhood was hit in several places with graffiti.
John Thacker explained that the City has a contract with the Juvenile Court to remove graffiti from private or public property as soon as it is discovered. This is part of the restitution from those under the jurisdiction of the court. He stated that people should notify the Police Department when they see graffiti and the Police Department will contact the Juvenile Court.
Cindy Nash stated that she did not know about this service and requested that this information be mentioned in a City newsletter.
Jim Nash stated that he is the LDS Branch President for the Apple Tree Retirement Center and St. Marks Gardens. Residents of both facilities have trouble safely crossing 600 North. The elevation on 600 North rises at that location and everyone speeds there. This is a busy street. He requests that something be done there to reduce the risks. He recommends flashing lights, a crosswalk, a reduced speed zone, or cones with a sign.
Andy Thompson stated that he would have to research the guidelines to see what options are available.
Action Item: Andy Thompson will research guidelines and determine what can be done to warn drivers about pedestrian crossings on 600 North at approximately 300 West.
MINUTES
Council Member Stephens made a motion approving the City Council minutes of December 20, 2007 and January 2, 2008 with corrections, second by Council Member Miller.
The vote on the motion was as follows:
Council Member Miller, yea
Council Member Galbraith, yea
Council Member Johnson, yea
Council Member Hiatt, yea
Council Member Stephens, yea
The motion passed unanimously.
CLAIMS
Council Member Miller made a motion approving claims in the amount of $524,530.26, second by Council Member Hiatt.
The vote on the motion was as follows:
Council Member Miller, yea
Council Member Galbraith, yea
Council Member Johnson, yea
Council Member Hiatt, yea
Council Member Stephens, yea
The motion passed unanimously.
CALENDAR
The Council Members reviewed a three month calendar.
Council Member Stephens made a motion for adjournment at 9:50 p.m., second by Council Member Miller and passed unanimously. |
